3 Liverpool, Manchester United and Spurs fans see if they can agree on 5 conclusions from the weekend's Premier League action. Thanks to @joethewag from http://thenotsoanonymousfootballfan.wordpress.com/ and @irritableshep for their contributions.
1) Spurs’ loss at home to Wigan is the biggest shock of the season so far
Nadim: DISAGREE
A far bigger shock was the Norwich win against Arsenal. Busted my 14 game accumulator and cost me 1200 pounds. I’m still not over it.
While Spurs have been doing well recently, they still have an air of inconsistency about them and Wigan seem a much better unit this term then they did for 75% of last season. They also won at the Lane a couple of seasons back by the same scoreline.
It was definitely a surprising result, but not one that came as a shock.
Joe: DISAGREE
Yes it was a big shock and probably yet another sign of how much work Spurs still have to do to be considered serious title challengers.
A bigger shock was the Norwich victory against Arsenal a few weeks back.
Shep: AGREE
To many on the outside Tottenham's defeat will appear the biggest shock result of the season so far. Those who saw the game would say it was a well earned victory for Wigan and the margin of victory could and should have been greater.
8 points from a possible 18 at home, compared to 9 from 12 on the road suggests the side is better equipped to hit teams on the break. The sale of Modric and van der Vaart, coupled with injuries to key players, means there could be more days like these unless AVB is backed financially in January.
2) Arsenal will struggle to finish 4th
Nadim: AGREE
They’ve got 15 points from 10 games which is their worst start ever under Wenger and it could have been less if the linesman had not made a horrific offside call for Arteta’s goal last week.
At present, they look a very average side, void of any confidence and presence. However, they’ve had a very tough start with away trips to Liverpool, Stoke, and the Manchester clubs as well as a home game against Chelsea. Should get better these next few months, but they’ll face a very tough challenge from Spurs.
It’s going to be a dogfight for 4th.
Joe: AGREE
Yes they will struggle.
Whilst Wenger insists on making questionable tactical decisions (Ramsey on the right wing?) they will drop points in similar circumstances as they have done so already.
But they will make it. Other teams, like Spurs, are prone to bigger blips than Arsenal.
Shep: DISAGREE
As we saw last year, Arsenal had a rough start but finished the season strongly to get Champions League football at the Emirates. The dynamic changed when Chelsea invested heavily making it look like the top three seems a foregone conclusion leaving a host of teams fighting it out for the remaining spot.
The sale of Van Persie was a big blow and it looks like they are struggling to find the right combination up top. But overall, I think their midfield will do them proud in their quest for Champions League football whilst Spurs adapt to life under AVB and Newcastle come to terms with juggling Europa League commitments. As for Everton, I am unsure they have sufficient strength in depth for a sustained challenge.
3) You didn't see the Norwich revival coming
Nadim: AGREE
I have to admit, after Liverpool them 5-2 I thought they’d do a Derby County. There were times during that game when we made them look amateurish (we could have scored 10) and I really thought they were the worst team in the division.
7 points from the last 9 (and 2 clean sheets) and a win against Spurs in the League Cup have proven me very wrong. Still a long way to go, but I never saw it coming.
Joe: DISAGREE
The moment they beat Arsenal the signs were there that they would not do a Swindon 93/94 or Derby 07/08.
A spirited comeback against Villa and victory over Pulis' cloggers means that they have every chance of staying up.
Shep: AGREE
Going into the October International break following big defeats to Liverpool and Chelsea I thought they were dead and buried with another thumping defeat to Arsenal surely to follow.
The additions of Bassong and Tettey appear shrewd. Grant Holt seems to be returning to his talismanic best following his uncertain summer. I think if Norwich can keep him fit then Hughton has an exceptional chance of keeping them up.
4) The only thing keeping Martin O’Neill in the Sunderland job is his name
Nadim: DISAGREE
1 win out of the last 17 tells its own story but it took a long time for Sunderland to get rid of Bruce (who the fans were patently against). If Short was a trigger happy owner I suspect he’d have sacked Bruce a lot earlier than he did.
As such, O’neill has other factors in his favor bar his name; namely a patient owner. Considering how much money they’ve spent, Sunderland are the great underachievers of the Premier League , and there’s really no excuse for their performances and results. But it’ll need to get even worse for O’neill to go.
Joe: AGREE
The Rolling Stones will always have sell out tours. Noel Gallagher will always have chart topping music. Martin O'Neill will always find a premier league side to manage despite the fact that his managerial career is not living up to its promise.
It is hard to understand where the downward spiral started; but for a man once linked to the Liverpool and United jobs, O'Neill has a lot of work to do to keep his credibility intact.
Shep: AGREE
I think when Martin O'Neill got the Sunderland job the majority of us felt it was an exceptional appointment and feared that trips to the Stadium of Light were going to become difficult fixtures.
Yet with just the one win this season, the only one dating back seventeen games from the end of March, they are showing relegation form. How many other managers would be afforded as much patience in such a winless run?
5) There’s nothing wrong with Liverpool that a top class finisher wouldn’t solve
Nadim: DISAGREE
Liverpool certainly need a finisher, but they need a creator too.
At the moment, Luis Suarez is being asked to be the chief creator and chief scorer. He’s doing well enough with 7 goals and 3 assists in 10 games (don’t get me started on the “offside” goal at Everton last week) for a side with no number 9 and Joe Cole as number 10.
Adding a striker (and there’s strong rumors that Huntelaar is a done deal) will ease Suarez’s goalscoring burden but not the creative one. A top quality attacking midfielder is also greatly needed.
Joe: AGREE
Liverpool's season has seen youngsters such as Wisdom, Sterling and Suso join an impressive list of youth team players in the squad.
A bit more bite in the final third would see the team elevated to potential top 4.
Shep: DISAGREE
Liverpool, understandably, rely too heavily on Suarez. I feel for Rodgers as he is dealing with the legacy of the previous regime and their extravagant expenditure.
Whilst a clinical, proven finisher would alleviate the burden on Suarez, Liverpool need more to make them a team that can string a sequence of results that can trouble the top 5.
I think Liverpool need to look for a long term replacement for Gerrard to mentor. In addition, they need another tricky, quick, experienced wide man to provide goal threat and prevent the younger players like Suso and Sterling from burning out too soon.
So not a single conclusion manages to unite us 3 this weekend. Thanks for reading and leave us your thoughts.
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